Firearm in an Uber – Uncovering their Policy?
If you travel, chances are you've used the rideshare taxi alternative, Uber. Perhaps you thought about making some money and driving for the company.
Considering the increased number of violent crimes, including armed carjackings, staying safe as a driver or passenger in a rideshare vehicle will be the topic of a future post. However, first, I wanted to bring awareness to the policies of rideshare leaders Uber and Lyft.
What is Uber's Firearm Policy —
I spent 10 minutes navigating through page after page of safety tips on protecting everyone in the world from the Chinese COVID virus and hurt feelings. However, surprisingly, Uber's gun policy was difficult to find. After searching their help section, I came across this statement:
Uber prohibits riders and their guests, as well as driver and delivery partners, from carrying firearms of any kind while using the app, to the extent permitted by applicable law.
Please note that the only situation where we would allow a firearm while using the app is if you are transporting your firearm in accordance with the Transportation Security Administration rules for transporting firearms and ammunition. That means your firearm must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container in the trunk of the vehicle. All parts, including magazines, clips, ammunition, and bolts and firing pins must also be transported in the trunk of the vehicle.
Failure to comply with this policy may lead to account deactivation.
So what does this policy mean —
If you drive for Uber and the company learns that you have a firearm in your vehicle, Uber will most assuredly ban you from using the service as a driver or passenger. Past that, it's hard to imagine any criminal issue arising. There are states where employers can prohibit employees from carrying firearms in company-owned vehicles, and violation constitutes a criminal act. However, just like Lyft and other businesses of this model, Uber does not have “employees”; instead, they are contractors.
In fact, in a lawsuit claiming Uber misrepresented the safety of using its services after a Uber driver assaulted a passenger with a handgun, Uber specifically refers to itself as a “technology company” and that it “does not perform any transportation services.”
This distinction comes with liberating benefits to the company in terms of taxes and benefit requirements. However, it also makes criminal prosecution against drivers impossible in those states where a statute exists. I'm not an attorney, and if you drive for Uber and want to carry a handgun for self-defense (which you should), you should consult an attorney on the topic.
If you're a passenger in an Uber who dares to arm themselves per the law, and Uber finds out, they are likely to ban you from the service. I am not aware of any state where it is a crime to carry a firearm legally inside an Uber.
It should not be surprising that Uber has an anti-gun policy, even if it is difficult to enforce and detrimental to the driver and passenger. The truth is companies are not afraid of gun owners like they are of the social media mob. Companies care about public perception and making a profit. Gun owners are not vocal, and don't boycott companies like anti-gun folks.
Here are some stories that reinforce the necessity of carrying your firearm, even in an Uber.
What do you all think about this?
Have you thought about defending yourself with a firearm while inside a vehicle? We have a course designed around that very thing. It is called Vehicle Firearm Tactics and is available as a DVD or online.
And for those among you who can't get enough reading, or for those of you who are questioning whether or not armed Uber drivers and riders are a good thing, below is just a small list of defensive gun uses involving folks in an Uber. Just perform an internet search on something like: “uber driver assaulted” and you will find many more stories like these here.
Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square
Uber driver shoots and kills robber along causeway near Aventura Mall
Local Uber driver says rider held a gun to his head during apparent “hate crime”
Uber Driver Fired After Tussle With Passenger Leads to Gunfire
Man shot during Uber ride in Clearwater
Bellman accidentally shot as Uber driver defends himself from carjacker
Uber Eats driver shoots man during attempted robbery at IHOP, Memphis police say
Until recently I flew every week to southern Ca, and took Uber and or Lyft every week, at witch I was carrying hundreds on time and know one every knew. That’s why it’s called concealed carry.
I’m going to carry my weapon I drive on weekends early morning I’m license in my State it’s is conceal I don’t know who getting in my car or what the person gonna his or her person Uber good company but I’m like the police I want to go home when I’m done I mean you don’t tell the riding hey my name is blank I’m conceal weapon holder and I have a weapon if you do that you need to be let go if I get stop by police and the passenger has warrant for them for hurting someone I’m going to protect my self
It is none of Uber’s business if I legally carry in my vehicle.
Uber is trying to ban me for conceal carrying. They don’t want me driving because I’m concealed carry,can I fight this???
Their terms of service reads that they can remove you from their platform for any reason, at any time.
You won’t get in legal trouble, but don’t expect the law to force Uber to give you a job.
How in the world did they know? Don’t tell me you asked?
Same I was banned after I violated the community guidelines, I don’t see how this”technology company” can dictate my ability to a. Protect myself b. Protect my passenger by violating my civil rights in a state that observes constitution carry as well as castle doctrine… any input is appreciated
How do they even know?
I am a Georgia resident and have held a Concealed Carry permit (Now renamed to Georgia Weapons Carry Licence) since 2004. I carry my sidearm just about everywhere I go either concealed or open carry, depending on the circumstances.
Huber directs drivers to follow TSA Guidelines concerning the transportation and carry of firearms. (“Uber prohibits riders and their guests, as well as driver and delivery partners, from carrying firearms of any kind while using the app, to the extent permitted by applicable law.”)
“”Please note that the only situation where we would allow a firearm while using the app is if you are transporting your firearm in accordance with the Transportation Security Administration rules for transporting firearms and ammunition. That means your firearm must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container in the trunk of the vehicle. All parts, including magazines, clips, ammunition, and bolts and firing pins must also be transported in the trunk of the vehicle.) With the following caveat:
When traveling, comply with the laws concerning possession of firearms as they vary by local, state and international governments.
That opens the door for individuals that are licensed to carry their weapons as they see fit as long as local and state laws permit.
SO! Where does the ambiguity end? Where does that leave law abiding U.S. Citizens and their 2ND Amendment Rights????
IMHO, it comes down to the driver, their licensing, and their state of residence.
Any other ideas on this????
I personally don’t want my driver carrying firearms. I don’t see why riders can’t keeps their arms unloaded in cases and in the trunk as per the company guidelines. I also don’t want share riders packing. I respect an individual’s rights to own a firearm, I would just prefer not to have them in my “cab” ride with me.
Why don’t you want a driver to carry? So you can rob him easier?
That’s a good one.
As a Concealed carry license holder, one has the right to carry his/her license and in taxi or uber. That should not restrict. What if there is an issue and he/she is not able to defend around the car, outside the car posing danger? There is no use. The ability to carry legally is to use it when needed to protect us, to protect this great country and for righteous use. So, 2nd Amendment should fully be honored. Uber cannot regulate this. So, it is WRONG.
I gave a ride to a girl the day that there was a “shooting” on the strip. She was so freaked out she wanted me to get her to her hotel asap. I even picked her up 3 blocks from her pickup location because she was running away. There was no shooting. It was the sound of shattering glass. If I had been carrying she may have felt more safe.
U are wrong. Y would u not want your driver to carry a gun. Do u see the number of Uber drivers getting killed. That is wrong for u to say. If u not trying to hurt the driver than the gun want be aimed at u. But for those people out there who have crime on their mine the Uber gun law is not going to stop them. The good drivers should not have to suffer for the bad. So if we have a Uber driver with bad intent and u a passenger, what are u going to do without a weapon. Lord I gotta find another job or Hussle. I want to see u faced wit a evil Uber driver.
Anyways, you will never know if the driver is carrying until you try to pull a fast one on him. The driver is never the criminal; 99% of the time is the passenger.
The choice is not yours. I drive for Uber. I carry concealed.
And I damn sure don’t ask my passengers what they think of it, because that would be stupid.
So how would you ever know?
What should I say to a man about to rob, rape, torture, assault, kill me? Excuse me Mr. Passenger while I go fetch my gun from my trunk, load it, then I can point it at your head to have the option to kill you before you kill me!
Absolutely. The whole idea of it is absurd on it’s face. I have a CCW permit from my state. I’ve been vetted. Can’t say the same for the passengers that Uber doesn’t vet and allow to use the platform with names like ”ghettoboi.” I’ll continue to carry and my passengers don’t know it. I’m not going to be a sacrificial lamb on Uber’s woke altar. I’m going to do all I can to make it home.
Emily please be careful and if feel safer do it ,my son was murdered working for Uber on Jan 13 this year and I wish he carried. I don’t get why you have to keep it locked in your trunk and yes you think that person will wait while you get it. It’s ridiculous and you Uber drivers need to protect yourself, had my son been able to the outcome would have been different . Good luck and be safe.
Well what good does it do to have a unloaded gun locked in a box if someone tries to attack you, or tries to rob you. Including passengers who don’t follow rules. If I am a contracted driver, I have control of my person and vehicle. Not UBER who is not my employer.
As a woman I would carry. I have a concealed permit for a reason. For protection of myself. The only way Uber would know or a passenger would know I had one is if I needed to use it and in that case I don’t care if I would lose my Uber driving privileges because I’m alive. I’m not a driver but I would carry.
you got my point
Excellent remark. I am an Uber driver and you stated that perfectly.
Uber is ridiculous. I have my Georgia Weapons Carry Licence and if they ban me from using Uber then so be it. I’m not going to just go without carrying my licensed and registered firearm because some snowflake is under the impression that everyone with a gun is going to shoot someone. All this is going to do, and yes I know I’m a little late to the game as I’ve been carrying my firearm fully loaded and on my hip in Ubers for years, is make people like myself have it concealed instead of open carry (which is legal if licensed in GA). Hell, I’ll use a inside the pants holster instead of a hard sided one.
I can’t stand how soft people are nowadays, but at least in GA people are such crybabies and I haven’t run into anyone crying about my open carry,
This is utterly Ridiculous! I live on the south side of chicago and there’s no way that I would be riding around some of the areas not equipped to protect myself. You need to be able to protect yourself from riders and people in areas of high crime. Uber would not take that right away from me.
I am with you on that. Be safe.
Uber misuses the Transportation Security Administration rule.
The TSA manages security policies for railroads, buses, pipelines, ports, mass transit systems, and highways. In transportation hubs, the TSA screens baggage and travelers at most of the major airports in the United States. It oversees contracts that are held by private screening firms who serve in a similar capacity.
You are not flying but driving your car
This is a very fine line they’re walking in the Uber community, and this is going to lead to lawsuits filed against Uber if/when someone is harmed or killed because they weren’t “allowed” to carry their gun in their own car. Your car is considered private property and the right to self preservation should never be taken lightly when total strangers are entering and exiting your car along with areas of your pick up and drop offs that aren’t in the best areas of town.
A company trying to dictate a policy that hinders a constitutional right needs to be challenged.
Unfortunatly I was laid off and the only option I have to make immediate money is to drive for Uber. Because my full time job at this time is trying to find a full time job, my time permits me to drive and earn money from 2am to 7am. I have had a few situations that have caused me to look into taking a local CC class. I will be completing next month. I hate that I even have to worry about something like this. But at these hours, in bigger cities, usually when most violent crimes occur. I see more and more reports where Uber/Lyft drivers are being robbed, car jacked etc…. I am just not going to take that chance. I only drive to put food on the table during this job transition and there is no way I will jeopardize my wellbeing during this time.
(430 ILCS 66/) Firearm Concealed Carry Act.
(430 ILCS 66/1)
Sec. 1. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Firearm Concealed Carry Act.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13.)
(430 ILCS 66/5)
Sec. 5. Definitions. As used in this Act:
“Applicant” means a person who is applying for a license to carry a concealed firearm under this Act.
“Board” means the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board.
“Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle.
“Department” means the Department of State Police.
“Director” means the Director of State Police.
“Handgun” means any device which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas, or escape of gas that is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. “Handgun” does not include:
(1) a stun gun or taser;
(2) a machine gun as defined in item (i) of paragraph
(7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012;
(3) a short-barreled rifle or shotgun as defined in
item (ii) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012; or
(4) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or
B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter, or which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second, or which expels breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors.
“Law enforcement agency” means any federal, State, or local law enforcement agency, including offices of State’s Attorneys and the Office of the Attorney General.
“License” means a license issued by the Department of State Police to carry a concealed handgun.
“Licensee” means a person issued a license to carry a concealed handgun.
“Municipality” has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 1 of Article VII of the Illinois Constitution.
“Unit of local government” has the meaning ascribed to it in Section 1 of Article VII of the Illinois Constitution.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13.)
(430 ILCS 66/10)
Sec. 10. Issuance of licenses to carry a concealed firearm.
(a) The Department shall issue a license to carry a concealed firearm under this Act to an applicant who:
(1) meets the qualifications of Section 25 of this
(2) has provided the application and documentation
required in Section 30 of this Act;
(3) has submitted the requisite fees; and
(4) does not pose a danger to himself, herself, or
others, or a threat to public safety as determined by the Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board in accordance with Section 20.
(b) The Department shall issue a renewal, corrected, or duplicate license as provided in this Act.
(c) A license shall be valid throughout the State for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance. A license shall permit the licensee to:
(1) carry a loaded or unloaded concealed firearm,
fully concealed or partially concealed, on or about his or her person; and
(2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded concealed
firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle.
(d) The Department shall make applications for a license available no later than 180 days after the effective date of this Act. The Department shall establish rules for the availability and submission of applications in accordance with this Act.
(e) An application for a license submitted to the Department that contains all the information and materials required by this Act, including the requisite fee, shall be deemed completed. Except as otherwise provided in this Act, no later than 90 days after receipt of a completed application, the Department shall issue or deny the applicant a license.
(f) The Department shall deny the applicant a license if the applicant fails to meet the requirements under this Act or the Department receives a determination from the Board that the applicant is ineligible for a license. The Department must notify the applicant stating the grounds for the denial. The notice of denial must inform the applicant of his or her right to an appeal through administrative and judicial review.
(g) A licensee shall possess a license at all times the licensee carries a concealed firearm except:
(1) when the licensee is carrying or possessing a
concealed firearm on his or her land or in his or her abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person’s permission;
(2) when the person is authorized to carry a firearm
under Section 24-2 of the Criminal Code of 2012, except subsection (a-5) of that Section; or
(3) when the handgun is broken down in a
non-functioning state, is not immediately accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a case.
(h) If an officer of a law enforcement agency initiates an investigative stop, including but not limited to a traffic stop, of a licensee or a non-resident carrying a concealed firearm under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act, upon the request of the officer the licensee or non-resident shall disclose to the officer that he or she is in possession of a concealed firearm under this Act, or present the license upon the request of the officer if he or she is a licensee or present upon the request of the officer evidence under paragraph (2) of subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act that he or she is a non-resident qualified to carry under that subsection. The disclosure requirement under this subsection (h) is satisfied if the licensee presents his or her license to the officer or the non-resident presents to the officer evidence under paragraph (2) of subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act that he or she is qualified to carry under that subsection. Upon the request of the officer, the licensee or non-resident shall also identify the location of the concealed firearm and permit the officer to safely secure the firearm for the duration of the investigative stop. During a traffic stop, any passenger within the vehicle who is a licensee or a non-resident carrying under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act must comply with the requirements of this subsection (h).
(h-1) If a licensee carrying a firearm or a non-resident carrying a firearm in a vehicle under subsection (e) of Section 40 of this Act is contacted by a law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel, the law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel may secure the firearm or direct that it be secured during the duration of the contact if the law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel determines that it is necessary for the safety of any person present, including the law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel. The licensee or nonresident shall submit to the order to secure the firearm. When the law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel have determined that the licensee or non-resident is not a threat to the safety of any person present, including the law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel, and if the licensee or non-resident is physically and mentally capable of possessing the firearm, the law enforcement officer or emergency services personnel shall return the firearm to the licensee or non-resident before releasing him or her from the scene and breaking contact. If the licensee or non-resident is transported for treatment to another location, the firearm shall be turned over to any peace officer. The peace officer shall provide a receipt which includes the make, model, caliber, and serial number of the firearm.
(i) The Department shall maintain a database of license applicants and licensees. The database shall be available to all federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies, State’s Attorneys, the Attorney General, and authorized court personnel. Within 180 days after the effective date of this Act, the database shall be searchable and provide all information included in the application, including the applicant’s previous addresses within the 10 years prior to the license application and any information related to violations of this Act. No law enforcement agency, State’s Attorney, Attorney General, or member or staff of the judiciary shall provide any information to a requester who is not entitled to it by law.
(j) No later than 10 days after receipt of a completed application, the Department shall enter the relevant information about the applicant into the database under subsection (i) of this Section which is accessible by law enforcement agencies.
(Source: P.A. 98-63, eff. 7-9-13; 98-600, eff. 12-6-13; 99-29, eff. 7-10-15.)
Uber is only using a small portion of the law in regard to the transportation of a firearm.
Illinois allows for the CCW to have a legally concealed firearm on their person even a vehicle, whether it is loaded on unloaded. My 2 cents: If Uber owns the vehicle, then that’s a different story. Criminals don’t obey the law or company policy
It is my right as an American citizen to uphold my second amendment right; “the right to bear arms…” The only reason I do is because society is very unpredictable… you never know when you will be in danger of losing your life. I refuse to be caught short handed because of somebody else’s stupidity ands ignorance. Especially while driving at night in a growing bid city when in some parts police suggest not going unless you know somebody there or live there… oh no not I
My 15-year old daughter was riding in an Uber in South Florida (oct 20, 2019) and the Uber driver’s concealed 9mm “accidently” went off and shot her through her ankle.
Sure she did. It was clearly the guns fault, not the driver.
Guns do not accidentally go off. Period. In fact, most guns have safety features that make it hard for them to accidentally go off.
Idiots in possession of a gun may accidently discharge it. The person in possession of the gun is 100% responsible. When that happens it is called negligent discharge.
My AR15 has been running around town holding up liquor stores without me.
You gotta believe me, Joe Biden says it’s so.
Why did you let a 15 year old ride in an Uber without you?
The BOTTOM line is UBER does NOT have “EMPLOYEES” in my state we are considered INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS if you want to tell us what we can and can NOT do then you need to pay us at least minimum wage( which 99% of us do NOT currently make) and classify us as an EMPLOYEE if not …STFU
As I understand it, I’m just supposed to die if I’m attacked. Well NV open car carry laws (LAW) states that I CAN have a firearm. I will use in defense of my life or property. Especially, with crime so high now, july 2020. Protect yourself. Don’t die for a $5 ride
What about the fact drivers are not employees but independent contractors? How can Uber say you are not an employee (saves them from tax paperwork and having to provide benefits such as health insurance) but then turns around and says your car is “their” property and you can’t carry?
We probably shouldn’t have used the word “employee” in this article. But the key here is they can set whatever terms of service they want for use of their application. If you violate those terms they have the right to block you from that application.
Uber is a joke so who gives a ———-
I drive for Uber and Lyft in Arizona. Their app does not and will not affect my Second Amendment right. I conceal both firearms as much as possible, but I have had a few riders notice one or the other handgun. In all cases, I have had positive feedback from the riders. Even a high-five. Uber & Lyft can go “eff” themselves.
My app was deactivated because a customer I was delivering food to late at night came to my car saw my gun took a picture and sent it to uber ,me not knowing that Uber had a no gun policy didn’t realized .he saw the gun then told me he need to take a picture of the food because his order was not right.
I am licensed to carry in the state of Georgia ,I couldn’t believe a brother would try that hard to stop me from feeding my kids I only do deliveries ,so late at night I carry but that particular night I decided to take it out of the glove compartment I went through the signing up process and I never read the policy on gun my mistake.
I was recently fired from uber for carrying my fire arm openly like many others I didnt know Uber had a no gun policy and I’m licensed to carry in the state of Pa and live in the city of Philadelphia which has 1 of the highest crime rates of car jacking and killing. I wish their was a way to sue uber cause it’s just not fair and I’ve heard of so many incidents in my area of Uber riders defending them selves with fire arms and possibly saving their own lives by doing so.
why would you want to open carry unless you like attention?? Why transmit to others what you have ?? I saw a video of a guy open carrying in a convenience store. A kid behind him saw the gun. Snuck up, snatched it, and ran out the door.
Now there’s a stolen handgun on the streets.
I’m pro 2A and own 2 handguns. Once I get my permit I’ll never open carry even though I will be able to do so legally.
I carry concealed, and reload for family and friends.
In Walmart a few weeks ago I came across a 20-something with his wife and small children carrying a Ruger Blackhawk .357 in a belt holster.
He seemed very defensive when I tried to make small talk with him, but finally told me he was trying to make a point.
So there’s your answer as to why some people open carry.
Not to mention it’s hard as hell to conceal that Ruger.
If you’re a criminal and know Uber’s no-carry policy, wouldn’t you instantly think they’d be an easy target?
This policy is bs, !! First thing first, UBER, runs background check for all Drivers, while they do a shi*** for riders, so technicly as driver you could riding with a serial killer and you wont never know, in the other hand, as rider you have at least the certain that UBER ran a background check on your driver, so is less possible for you as a rider you will riding with a serial killer, using the same example. As driver UBER does not allow no body else to drive your car, and is a metter of fact that the riders can see your profile and photo, when they request the ride, on the other hand as driver we dont know a sh*** about the rider until they are in the car, on top of that the riders doesnt even to provide a legal and real name!! I ve be riding with people who’s profile just show A or any funny or crazy nickname, the app also allow the riders to request a trip for a 3rd person, so even if the account owner is not a serial killer, the 3rd person who’s the ride was requested for could be! This is really a bullshit !! Safety policy from UBER owners, of course they are no risking their lives riding with Micheal Madison or Jeffrey Dahmers !!
Now I use drive weekends nights, and on top to ride and deal with drunk riders, recently I found a 9mm Glock gun loaded with Hollow Point bullets (which is ilegal), on my car floor just behind the driver seats, this mean the person carrying the gun was seated just behind me !! lucky for me nothing happended, but my life was in risk ! Because I dont know who I was riding with ? I dont know what his/her trully intenttions were, while riding in an UBER car carrying a gun, I could pottentially got harm or killed by this person, but UBER Does not allow me to carry a concealed gun? How can they prevent a rider for get in your car carrying a gun? How can they guarantee your life while your are driving for them ?, will they indemnize my family if something happend to my while driving for them? I bet no. They truth is that as a driver we face so much risk, then the riders, we also have to ride with drug users (marihuana) yes ! Marihuana is a drug! No matter how funny you thing it is, cannabis is a drug, and smell like sh****, so why as driver I have to let somebody how is a drug user, (could be even a drug dealer), or some in possession of who knows what portion of marihuana get in my car while smelling all around marihuana? I called them (UBER) , and they said they can not discriminate people who like to smoke marihuana ! WTF ? For God sake, if they have right not to be discriminited for using marihuana, I also have the right not to let them get in my car having to smell marihuana all the trip long ! Yes they ll say, “you always can choose to cancel the trip” but if you do then they absurd policy about cancellations, will count to your UBER rate score ! So in my opinion f**** UBER ! I done doing this crap hustle!, you wont even be safe if you choose just to make UBER EATS deliveries, coz you are in risk to end like te poor UBER driver who got kill and dismembered while delivering food to a man affiliated with the MS-13 gang to his house in Holiday, Florida on Apr 30 2023 !! How to f**** a gangster like this guy with a tattooed face, member of a killer gang (Oscar adrian solis) had an UBER ACCOUNT !! A man described for Pasco County Sheriff Chris Nocco as VIOLENT MAN !
SO IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIFE ! Please STOP DRIVING FOR UBER !! It doestn worth the risk of loosing your most valuable treassure ! Your life !!
I drive for both Lyft and Uber, and have never gotten in the car without my legally carried and permitted concealed sidearm. Nobody needs to know, and unless someone is threatening my life or the life of somebody in my vehicle, nobody will know. At which point any “rules” would become irrelevant. I’d rather lose a job than my life.