Should You Modify the Trigger of Your Everyday Carry (EDC) Gun?
I'm often asked if I think it is a good or bad idea to modify the trigger of an everyday carry (EDC) gun, or home defense gun used for self defense. There are definite benefits and drawbacks to any modification, and this is no different. Let's look at both arguments and point out some things to consider. I hope by the end, you'll be able to decide if you want to modify your trigger, and if so, the best method of doing it.
Why would you want to modify a trigger?
When modifying a trigger, typically people want to do one or more of the following:
- reduce the amount of force necessary to press the trigger (pull weight)
- reduce the amount the trigger moves before firing the shot (pre-travel)
- reduce the distance the trigger moves after the shot breaks (over-travel)
- have a more defined “break” (when the shot actually fires)
- reduce the distance the trigger has to move forward to reset the trigger (reset)
- change the shape of the trigger shoe (the part of the trigger your finger touches)
Three Different Views —
Unless you shoot regularly, you may not recognize or even get any real benefit from some trigger modifications. Nevertheless, trigger mods are very popular.
Pull weight seems to be one that is easily recognized and what most people think of when discussing trigger modifications. Pull weight along with pre-travel are probably modifications with the most potential to be an associated factor in an unintended discharge. For that reason, when there are objections to modifying a trigger, it's usually against pull weight or pre-travel. But not everyone sees it this way.
Aftermarket triggers are available for most of the popular modern semi-auto handguns, like this from the Sig Sauer P320 from Tyrant Designs.
There are three major views when discussing trigger modifications on an everyday carry (EDC) gun carried for self defense. I'll present and break down each argument the way I see it.
Don't ever modify your trigger —
The general idea here is that if you modify your trigger, you could face lawsuits or criminal charges if you ever use your gun in self defense. The manufacturer made the gun with certain specifications, and to go outside those specifications is inviting trouble. Modifications have a negligible effect on shooting performance.
Do whatever you want —
There is another view that people make way more out of modifications than what they should. Nobody ever got convicted of a crime just because they modified their trigger, so the fear is unwarranted. If modifying my trigger allows me to shoot better, then that is a good thing.
Somewhere in the middle —
This group recognizes both sides argue good points, but leave out points that hurt their case. They think more than convictions and lawsuits should go into deciding on modifying a carry gun's trigger.
Addressing the Criminal Charge Argument —
While it's likely true that nobody gets convicted of murder just because they have a lighter than factory trigger pull, that doesn't mean trigger modifications, or any modification for that matter, won't be considered in a criminal or civil investigation.
In one instance, a law enforcement officer (LEO) shot a suspect with his patrol rifle, and ultimately charged with 2nd Degree Murder. The inside of the rifle's ejection-port had a profanity inscribed on it. I understand this isn't a trigger modification, and there were definite problems with the shooting, but I want to bring to your attention to how the inscription got played up in court.
Inscribed on the officer’s gun, and I hate to use profanity, but it said, “you’re f*****” — Laney Sweet, Daniel Shaver’s (the deceased) wife
That statement tells me this is a person who’s enthusiastic about killing people. That's what that inscription means. — Mark Victor, lawyer for Sweet and her late husband
Again, I'm not insinuating that the inscription was the cause for charging the officer. I bring this up only to point out that prosecutors used the inscription to suggest that it showed the officer wanted to kill someone. Maybe the officer did or didn't, but it doesn't matter. It matters how convincing the prosecutor is to the jury.
Consider that the prosecutors tried to use the fact that Kyle Rittenhouse used hollow-point cartridges in his AR-15 because they explode, and he wanted to kill people. We know it's ludicrous, and the prosecutor was schooled by Rittenhouse and the defense counsel on this point, but the point is nearly anything is fair game.
Could some prosecutor say something like, “we know of criminals that reduce the wight of the trigger on their gun, they call it a ‘hair trigger' because it's so light. They do this to be ready to kill someone. Similarly, the defendant reduced the pull weight on their trigger because he really wanted to kill someone?”
I think it's possible to bring a gun's modification into evidence, and present it in a way to show motivation.
I think if your self-defense shooting is above board; you have a pretty good chance of staying out of court and any modification would be inconsequential. Where you might see an issue is in a negligent discharge.
Modifications and Unintended Discharges —
If you injure someone because of an unintentionally fired round, reduced pull-weight and pre-travel may play more of a factor in that investigation. Survivors of a deceased man used the ‘hair-trigger' argument in a wrongful death case Birchfield v. Sweatt. The judge offered summary judgement against the plaintiffs, but not because the trigger's modification wasn't relevant, just hat the person who modified the trigger didn't have a duty to inform the deceased that he lightened the pull weight.
There are numerous criminal and civil cases in which reduced pull weight of the trigger was used to argue that the gun went off unintentionally. Here is an interesting incident from New Orleans.
Trigger shoe shapes of the Tyr, Apex and standard Glock trigger
The point is that reducing the trigger weight or the distance the trigger must move before firing the shot increases the potential that we fire the gun unintentionally. I'm not saying it guarantees a negligent discharge, or it is the sole reason behind one, just that it increases the potential. So that needs to be weighed against any intended benefit.
Reliability and Safety of Aftermarket Products —
Gun manufacturers spend a lot of money on developing a gun that operates safely. Modification of the intended system, can have poor results. A well-known company sold a modified Glock trigger for years, before someone discovered that it could deactivate the gun's internal drop safety.
You also have to make sure that any modification doesn't hurt the reliability of your firearm. If this is a gun for self defense, how much more important is it to ensure that the modification won't cause a malfunction or catastrophic failure? Make sure that if you decide to modify your trigger with aftermarket products, you buy parts that have a long-proven track record, and that you perform considerable testing after the modification.
Does this mean I think you shouldn't reduce the pull weight of your trigger?
Not at all.
I think it's important to ask a few questions before deciding on any modification.
What is the Purpose of the Trigger Modification —
Why am I modifying my trigger? If it's because you prefer a different trigger shoe shape, or like a more defined break, you're going to be hard pressed to find an argument against that. Again, we're mainly looking at why someone would reduce the pull weight or pre-travel.
Modification to increase accuracy —
The most cited reason for reducing the pull-weigh has to be that by doing so, you can be more accurate. And while to a certain degree this is true, compared to fundamentals, pull-weight has minimal impact on accuracy. I'm not saying it has no effect, just not as much as say, learning how to grip the pistol better.
Modification to decrease split times —
Another argument for trigger modifications is that some can help with split times or shooting multiple rounds faster. Again, there is truth to this, and a legitimate reason to modify a trigger.
However, I think that most people can't outperform the trigger they have currently, so even with modifications, they won't realize the hoped for performance boost.
Shot Recording Software like LASRX is a fantastic way of practicing and tracking split times in fun and challenging ways.
Also consider that we likely can't process information fast enough to warrant a split time reduction from .3 to .15, so while we may indeed reduce split times, will we necessarily need that in a self defense shooting? Perhaps, but maybe the trade-off isn't worth it. After all, most police departments don't allow officers to modify their trigger, and most issues with police shootings aren't a problem with split times that are .15 slower than they should be.
My point, weigh any benefit against any drawback.
Ways to Modify Your Trigger —
So, I am not saying not to modify your trigger. I have an aftermarket trigger on one of my carry guns. It doesn't reduce the trigger weight. Instead, it simply provides a flat-faced trigger shoe, instead of the traditional curved trigger shoe.
So if you've weighed the options and decide to modify your trigger, here are some ways to do it.
Aftermarket drop-in trigger group or components —
An aftermarket ‘drop in' trigger group replaces several components of the factory trigger system. Some of the benefits of these aftermarket triggers are that they change the shape of the trigger shoe (the part your finger actually rests on). The change in shape can help with finger placement and leverage as you pull the trigger.
Aftermarket triggers groups may use aftermarket and OEM parts in their kit. Some simply polished or coat certain parts that smooth out the trigger pull, remove some of the gritty feel, and produce a crisper trigger break. Sometimes polishing parts actually change the feel of the trigger.
There are also drop-in products that reduce or increase the pull weight of the trigger. Changing a spring or connector bar can change how much force is required to press the trigger. Beware, though, changing the spring weight to get a lighter striker can create reliability issues by causing light primer strikes.
One thing I like about aftermarket trigger groups is that if I don't like how the trigger feels afterwards, I can simply take the product out, because I didn't make any permanent changes.
Another advantage of drop-in trigger groups is that they require just average gunsmithing skills. Most companies will recommend a qualified armor install the parts, so if you question your abilities at all, it's probably best to take it to someone who knows what they are doing.
Gunsmithing —
A second way to modify the trigger is to mill, grind, file, or otherwise physically modify the original trigger group components of the firearm to reduce the trigger weight. Competition shooters may be more likely to do this to their firearm, however, some of these modifications are made to everyday carry guns, or competition guns are being used to perform dual roles.
Before semi-automatics became the standard for law enforcement, many officers almost universally had to get a ‘trigger job' done to their service revolvers. The process smoothed out and reduced the heavy double-action trigger pull on their DA/SA revolvers.
Modifications like this should almost certainly be done by a qualified armorer. Any modification to the tolerances of the firearm’s components could cause it to malfunction, wear and fail prematurely, or even fire when not intended.
When done right there's no doubt that a good gunsmith can make a clunky DA/SA semi-auto run like a dream. These types of modifications are usually permanent, so that could be a good or bad thing, depending on how you look at it.
Be Able To Back Up Your Decisions:
Make sure you can articulate why you needed to make the modification of your firearm. Being able to explain exactly why the modification makes the gun safer for you to use, and thus ultimately safer for the general public, can help the jury understand why what you did was responsible and not reckless.
If you are intent on modifying your trigger, please do it the right way by considering some of the points in this post.
As always, focus on your training and stay safe.
** This post was originally published in April, 2018 **
I had my Glock 21 worked on to give it a 4 pound trigger for USPSA competitions, but it is also my EDC. I like the lighter trigger. With a Glock, the safety mechanism works the same no matter the trigger pull, so the only change is that your shots are quicker and have a somewhat smaller chance for the trigger pull to affect the accuracy and follow-up shots in the event of a life and death situation.
To me, it was well worth it and has had no impact on the safety of carrying the weapon. I suppose some will say it increases the chance for letting off a shot before you intended to, but I disagree. I was trained and my experience reinforced trigger control and taking your shot when you are ready and not before.
2 1/2 years doing private security in Iraq, and multiple trips into garden spots like Afghanistan and Beirut have taught me that it ids you who have control of your trigger, and the pull weight is just another tool like the gun itself.
Hi Mikial,
Thanks for the response. I agree totally with you that the ultimate safety is the user, not anything on the gun. And I thank you for doing private security over seas. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system in the United States and Civil Court System can be very brutal for uses of force against other civilians over here. Ultimately its a decision everyone has to make on their own. But I always believe having more facts is better than not enough, when making a decision that could cause legal or monetary repercussions later on.
Bullshit. You should modify the trigger if you want to modify the trigger. If you can get faster, more accurate hits without sacrificing safety, and you want to…..then you should. You said, “we need to understand that a deadly force or self defense shooting is not a marksmanship competition” Again, bullshit. Accuracy is critical, and in some hostage rescue situations, accuracy and speed will spell the difference between your loved one living or that loved one dying.
Hi John, thanks for the reply. I definitely agree that accuracy is critical when if comes to shooting a firearm. The distinction I made was between combat accuracy and slow fire, fully sighted marksmanship. There is a HUGE difference between the two. Yes the hostage situation requires much more fine accuracy than 99.9% of typical deadly force encounters. I think if you are training to the point where you feel comfortable taking a brain stem shot on a hostage taker who is holding your loved one, you probably can put in enough work on a factory trigger to become proficient taking that shot. I am by no means the best shooter on the planet, but through routine practice I can shoot hostage drills at 25 yards with a standard glock trigger. Would I take that same shot at 25 yards in a high stress situation, probably not, and not even if I had a modified trigger of .00001 lb. The margin of error on that type of shot is so slim, that you are better off using tactics to close distance and take a better shot with less margin of error.
You also say if you can modify the trigger without sacrificing safety you should. I agree, the ultimate safety is the users ability with the firearm. However reducing the trigger weight on the gun makes it inherently easier to fire, and on a firearm that is being used for self defense where stress is probably as high as it can get, this is sacrificing safety. It has been proven scientifically that we have a “sympathetic squeeze response” during stressful situation. Even the most seasoned officers and military have experienced this phenomenon. This is just one example of that : http://americanhandgunner.com/unintended-shot-the-santibanes-incident/
I definitely appreciate your input and feedback.
Wow! Way to poison the jury pool there. Everyone should modify their carry weapons to be exactly the best that it can be to work for their individual situation. There is no “one size fits all” firearm out there, and manufacturer specifications are not designed to work optimally for every person. We should not even entertain the idea that weapons are good to go right out of the box, nor should anyone legitimize the thought through articles like this one.
Hi Jim, Thank you for the feedback. You are definitely passionate in your opinion on the topic and that is great. I happen to disagree with you though. I am not sure what brands of firearms you have been purchasing where a modification is needed in order for the firearm to option optimally. Most police departments across the country do not modify their duty guns, and in fact Glock will not modify any of their guns prior to shipping to law enforcement. The gun is designed for law enforcement use from the factory. I would see if you can speak with an experienced self defense/use of force defense attorney and get his/her opinion on reducing trigger weight on a firearm you may use in a deadly force encounter. As far as this article poising the jury pool, I think that has been done over the last 10 years with the push to limit gun ownership. I thank you for your feedback, and opinion. Thanks for reading.
I do have to disagree on not modifying “Glock” guns. gen 1 Glock 19 and gen 2 Glock 17 had releases of crimson trace lasers built into the frames of the guns.
Name a single court case where anyone was prosecuted based on the type of ammunition used or modifications on the firearm. If deadly force is appropriate it doesn’t matter if you shot them with a .22 or hit them over the head with a lamp and killed them.
This may be an interesting case to read.
http://americanhandgunner.com/unintended-shot-the-santibanes-incident/
This example is from a negligent discharge. Do you have examples where a self-defense case was lost due to a trigger modification?
The Real Person!
Hi Eric,
If you want a simple answer, it would be no. But rarely are cases won or lost based on a single factor. Every Jury member is not polled after every court decision to ask what the single reason for deciding to convict or acquit. If you ask me, are there cases where the pull-weight of a trigger was brought up and may have influenced a decision? Of course, there are, just ask any attorney who regularly defends clients in self-defense cases, or someone who has testified in many cases on the issue.
Love them or hate them, If you read their publications or attended seminars from people like Massad Ayoob or Emanual Kapelshon, they explain how prosecutors and defense attorneys retain them to testify as an expert witness on, gun modifications including trigger modifications.
Your question is reasonable but more of a ‘straw man’ argument, and not unique. Just look at every other comment on this post and any other article taking a similar stance on the topic.
Could anyone reasonably answer this question? “Can you show me a self-defense case that was won, because the defendant’s argument was, ‘there are no self-defense cases where a trigger modification was the reason for conviction. So for that reason, I must be found not guilty.’ Of course not.
There is legal precedence of course. There is also conceptual or objective precedence when it comes to the jury. Big money is spent by the prosecution and defense, on jury consultants whose job is to find out how to connect with a juror and play on that emotion. There is a ton of evidence that shows things like modifications (of any sort), the color of the gun, type of the gun, number of shots, the physical appearance/age/sex/race etc. of the defendant, social media posts, etc. etc. played a part in the jurors ultimate decision. These biases are not based on any legal standard, but they exist none the less.
A couple additional reasonable questions that should follow should be:
‘Are there cases that may not have ever gone to court, had it not been for trigger modifications, regardless of the finding?’
‘Are there cases whos trial were extended in part, or solely because the defendant had to explain to jurors, why the lighter trigger pull weight made them a better shooter?’
‘Are there cases where an expert witness was needed to explain to jurors why the trigger modification was necessary for making the gun safer or making the defendant a better shooter?”
‘Are there cases where the number of shots is brought into question and used to determine the reasonableness of force? And an argument could be made that some of the final shots may not have been intentional due to a lighter trigger?’
‘Are there civil cases that have been brought to bear on someone after an acquittal in a criminal case, because there is a better chance to reach the legal standard to show the lightened trigger somehow played even a part in causing their client some damage that a court could make you pay for?’
These are just as reasonable questions one should ask themselves if they carry a firearm for self-defense and intend on making any modifications. Personally, I don’t want to even end up in criminal or civil court, regardless of the outcome. There are plenty of financially destroyed people who were found not guilty. Attorney fees and expert witnesses cost tons of money, that frankly, I don’t have.
So for those reasons, like I mentioned, I made the personal choice to limit the modifications on my trigger to the shape of the shoe, and not pull weight. Could that modification be a reason to drag me into a courthouse? possibly. I think after a preliminary examination of the evidence, it would be less likely, but I accept that level of risk.
Hopefully, if you or any of the other readers are involved in a DGU, the initial investigation will be so overwhelmingly in favor of a self-defense claim, that you go home the same night with a pat on the back from the police and their word that no criminal charges will be filed.
Laws and political aspirations vary from state to state and DA to DA. So what might be the case in Yuma, Arizona, might play out differently in Detroit, Michigan.
If you or anyone want’s to reduce the trigger pull weight on an EDC go for it. It is not illegal and may make you a better shooter. It may also leave a couple chinks in the armor for an attorney to try and exploit. Beyond that, just be able to justify any modifications, and accept the added risk that comes with them.
I would have to agree, certain modifications are less likely to set you up for failure. In today’s world, you are more likely to be sued, civilly than prosecuted criminally. As firearm owners, we know the risks of just even owning a firearm. Ask yourself this: do I live in a place where people understand good and evil? Or do I live in a place where evil acts are justified by a persons conditions? Rights of citizens are being eroded everyday, by people who think we are “enlightened beings” not “human beings”.
As far as trigger pull weights are concerned, leave them where the manufacturer has set them…… just for your service or everyday carry weapon. with trend for firearms doing away with thumb safeties or grip safeties, the weight of the trigger pull is the safety. if you have been a child or have children you will recognize the added benefit I’ve having a trigger pull on your everyday carry weapon. this is a weapon that would be easily accessible to you and the defense of yourself or your family, which also means at some point it may become accessible by your loved ones who may not have as much training as you do.
Well being a law enforcement officer for over 17 years and carrying off duty. I have learned through experience testifying as an expert in officer involved shootings they completely dissect your weapon and question all modifications. So I agree just be ready to testify and educate yourself to the fullest regarding carry wrapon modification. Just fyi..
I could agree on not modifying the trigger pull weight IF stock triggers were decent. All 3 of my Glocks had horrendus triggers – not even close to your 5.5 lb example – more like 8.5. My thoughts are those heavy (“safer”) triggers means more misses, and more down range liability. The correct answer should be – if you do modify it, practice, practice and practice to avoid any negligent discharges.
The only way to avoid being portrayed as a anything but a regular law abiding citizen is to have a stock gun, stock ammo and no modifications of any kind. If involved in a defense shooting the defense will be difficult and costly, there’s no need to make it more difficult.
That when you say you’re going to the range that day and got mugged!
Matthew, I think your original post and responses are very reasonably written. I think it was really compelling to explain there is a difference between the legal/criminal conditions and the civil suit. In the civil suit not only is the burden of proof lower, i.e. the “reasonable person” believes the preponderance of the evidence presented by the plaintiff, but the attorney of the person filing suit has a profit motive. He or she will likely take on the case based on ability to share in the monetary damages awarded. Ipso Facto, that automatically means if you find yourself in civil suit on this type of matter, the attorney believes there is money to be had.
Said attorney will also have you investigated, understand what your financials are, factor in whether you have general liability insurance, understand whether your insurer would be likely to settle, etc – they are in the business of suing.
To win more than lose, they are expert in portraying their clients as a victims, and the defendants as aggressors, and as you note, expert in using everything they can as ammunition against the defendant.
Best case, as a defendant, you will have high legal fees, emotional and financial distress, even if you win. If you lose, best case your insurance company will settle, and you’ll run the risk of losing your homeowners insurance, your house, other real assets. So why give a low life who tried to kill you, or his family for that matter, any thing you don’t have to give them to use against you.
One thing I feel helps people think through the kinds of scenarios is to think of hyperbolic opposites. Suppose two cases which are both legally justified and suppose in both cases, the person who was compelled to shoot was found innocent. Further suppose the person who was shot survived but was successfully prosecuted. Even in that circumstance, the defendant in the legal case could still be sued.
In one extreme, suppose the defendant shot a bone stock glock with a 6 pound trigger 3 times.In the other extreme, suppose the defendant shot 10 rounds out of 23 rounds from a race gun with a 2 pound trigger.
In which case does the plaintiff’s attorney have the greater “arsenal” of points he can exaggerate and inflame a jury?
While i personally may want to bristle at someone limiting my ability to shoot my carry weapon better by enhancing it, I think some things you have to say are just what they are. De-escalate where you can, walk away where you can, train, train, train, and if you ever have to shoot, shoot. But it just makes sense to have thought about this issue, and to reasonably limit your liability for a law suit. In the same way you would not divulge information to the Police without an attorney, do not offer a future plaintiff things they will use against you.
My 2 cents. Great comments from all sides on this thread, but I agree with Matthew.
Technically, even aftermarket sights can be scrutinized with the same points. Some stock sights are so bad that they have to be replaced. Your thoughts?
The Real Person!
Jeff,
Absolutely. There are no evidentiary rules that prohibit the admisableness of any modifications to the firearm. The standard I use when I am deciding on what modifications I feel like making on my firearm, is: 1) does it change the way the firearm mechanically functions ie. trigger weight, safety function etc. 2) can I explain why the benefit it provides, and does that benefit outweigh the potential drawbacks ie. if all things are equal (fundamentals and situationally), better sights should help with accuracy. Similarly, all things being equal (fundamentally and situationally), does a lighter trigger help someone shoot more accurately? Possibly, but does it help me shoot so much more accurately, that it outweighs the potential negative association of ‘lightened triggers’? For me, the answer to that one is no. 3) And while I have the freedom to inscribe quotes or put pictures on my gun, could those be construed by someone in a negative light, and potentially make me look like I had ill intentions? Things like ‘kill em all and let God sort ’em out’ or punisher skulls and grim reapers just present an appearance that someone may be quick to result to deadly force.
None of these are rules that you will find in court, and if the incident is so cut and dry and there is terrific evidence and eye witness testimony, it wouldn’t matter if you had something like ‘I want to kill you’ written on your gun. But many times there is not a ton of evidence to corroborate your actions. And in those cases inferences will be made, they have to be made, because the case will be made circumstantially. I don’t want to expose a chink in my armor, for a prosecutor to say ‘we have a lightened trigger or a guy who is going to come across as trigger happy based on social medial posts and inscriptions on his handgun, so let’s take a shot’. Because even if I am not convicted, the financial and mental toal is something I don’t want to suffer.
Hope this helps.
Lots of mixed responses here. Some good and some, well, not. When people typically think of the term “modding” their gun, which we’ll refer to our edc’s to stay in-subject, we always think trigger. But there are multiple modifications that you can do to make your edc “battle ready.” I would sooner stiple my grips and upgrade my sights before I would modify my trigger. What I believe has not been mentioned yet is the fact that 99.9% of the people that have a concealed carry permit would likely freak out in an actual situation, nullifying said modified fancy expensive trigger. Matthew made a great point with standing and slowly aiming, properly squeezing the trigger, and placing a round on paper is far different than someone attempting to actually kill you or a loved one and you are left with no choice but to end the threat. I am a VERY good shot. I can place a full 19 round magazine in a silver dollar size hole at 10 yards if I practice great weapon and trigger control. But if a real-life situation happened, I would want to make sure I can actually see where my gun is being pointed in a not-so-perfect setting. Hence, upgraded sights. (No, that does not mean an optic specifically. Just a good quality sight that will allow you to aim on your target vs hitting an innocent bystander.) I also like to have my carry pistol stipled to make sure that my shaky hands keep a good purchase on my weapon in said high-stress situation.
Any good lawyer can prove you to be a death dealer given the right circumstances. But instead of spending money on a fancy trigger, spend it on a good quality local class that will show you how to keep your cool in a high-stress situation. Also, make sure your weapon is SAFE before you make it a bit more dangerous.
Mathew, what about buying a gun from say S&W performance center that has had trigger work done, or internals shaved or filed whatever S&W performance center does? doe this fall into the same category if anyone was to have a gun modified for trigger pull or even do it themselves?
The Real Person!
Hi Steve, Thanks for asking. My opinion (and it’s just that) is that firearms that come from the factory with ‘performance’ enhancements have a lower chance of carrying a negative stigma in the minds of jurors, and would be less likely to be attacked by an overzealous prosecutor. Not to say it couldn’t happen but probably less likely. It is also probably easier to show that it’s use is consistent with how the gun was designed to operate by the manufacturer. I find it would be more precarious to call an aftermarket trigger manufacturer into court to confirm that they made their trigger for defensive concealed carry use, compared to a gun manufacturer that has deeper pockets and possibly stronger witnesses to justify that their enhancements make the gun more ‘shootable’ while maintaining industry standard tolerances.
The modding trigger debate is contentious because of it really revolves around weighing risk vs reward, so it’s super subjective. Ultimately, if you feel the added benefit of any performance mod is worth the possibility that it could open the door for a prosecutor to take a chance at charging you, absolutely do it. I think it’s fair to point out that all mods do not come with the same level of scrutiny. Upgraded sights come to mind, and compared to a modded trigger or death imagery on the gun. When thinking if a mod is appropriate, I think of how I would explain it to a layperson who may know nothing about guns, is scared of them or hates them.
That being said, for years, cops carried revolvers and nearly all had a trigger job done to smooth out the trigger. So there is that too lol
Hope this didn’t make the murky topic any worse lol
if you shoot somebody INTENTIONALLY to DEFEND yourself because you feared for your life, you re good, but if you shot somebody ACCIDENTALLY because of your MODIFIED HANDGUN, you re done.
I like how you said that reducing your weapon’s trigger can help more than simply the pull weight necessary to fire. I imagine that after getting your trigger changed you would want to do some pistol training to be sure that you are comfortable with your firearm. That way you won’t be put into an awkward situation because of what you were used to before when trying to use your weapon.
I would bet money that all of those commenting who are so passionately FOR modifying a carry trigger don’t train. Train with your stock gun, there are no cheat codes.
What’s you’re opinion about elderly/disabled who hands are not stronger lowering the hammer pull on DA pistols like Ruger SP101?
The Real Person!
Hi John, I don’t think there is any cause for concern if you are smoothing out, or reducing the weight of a DA, 10 lb trigger pull to say 8 llbs (these figures are obviously arbitrary and I am just using them to answer your question). I say this because it should be easy for anyone to see that the purpose of the modification is to make it easier for you to operate the firearm safely due to a physical limitation you have. In the end, modification of the trigger probably won’t be an issue in any use of force that is legal. It is more an issue if there is a negligent or accidental discharge of the firearm.
I hope this helps
I actually just purchased a flat trigger from Sig Sauer to replace my P365’s flat trigger. Figured since I just sent out the slide and RomeoZero Elite red dot sight for milling, fitment, and refinishing it was also a good time to make the other upgrade I wanted to do.
I personally believe other than a case of negligent discharge causing the injury or death of another, any prosecutor that has to go down the road of “changed the trigger, used hollow point bullets, changed this or that” road to try to make the case for homicide should have the case dismissed with prejudice as none of that deals with if a shooting was self defense or murder.
If I am going to carry a gun for self defense I want to make sure it’s made to hit my target the best it can with my skill level so I don’t end up accidentally shooting an innocent bystander. I know you’re supposed to be aware of your target and what’s behind it, but sometimes you have no choice but to shoot when it’s a matter of life or death (just look at what happened at that mall in Indiana the other month).
Regardless of opinions it was a decent article. Your point, the point, is always think safety and if you carry, always remember there is no guarantee if you’re forced to use you’re weapon. In today’s litigious climate, everyone’s trying to blame someone else for their lot in life and make a buck at the same time. I have several buddies who are attorneys and what I’ve learned from them is the legal system is absolutely NOT based on common sense or right and wrong and you don’t want to get caught up in it.
People living in cold climates like Minnesota have to deal with issues such as whether or not you can fit a gloved finger into the trigger guard WITHOUT activating the trigger.
By reducing the take up you create more room inside the trigger guard to fit a gloved finger.
My question is: Does reducing the trigger take up really make the pistol any less safe?
I have installed a 10% stronger trigger return/reset spring. It will very slightly increase the required trigger pull force. I have strong hands and fingers and fingers and I don’t notice any difference in the feel of the trigger. But a stronger trigger return/reset spring might more reliably reset the trigger.
The Real Person!
Highly experienced guys that I trust, that have done legit stuff on the ground here in the US as well as overseas, make a strong case for more travel length in a trigger. You’ll sometimes hear some of those same guys refer to a DA/SA gun and its long first trigger press as a “thinking man’s” gun, sometimes providing just a little more of a buffer for you to make a decision on whether to fire or not.
The point is that I don’t think shorter triggers are a bad thing, in fact they can be a very good thing when we have a very critical shot that’s required, but the shorter the trigger travel we have, the more responsibility we have to ensure we are really on top of things and are 100% deliberate in when we press and do not press.
IMO people Chase trigger feel too much. Just shot and shot often and you will offset any losses due to a “bad” trigger. Just watch guys like Hickok45.. Great shooter with stock guns. But, if you truly want to make the argument for better triggers why not pick the gun that comes with a “good” trigger? Obviously there are plenty of emotions posted here..
The Real Person!
Having spent many years intentionally shooting only stock triggers and guns, I can say that the first time I modified a trigger, it surprised me at how much easier shooting that gun became for me. Faster, more accurate, easier…all good things.
Good work can be done with less than perfect triggers. But it is inarguable that a better trigger simply enhances a person’s ability. Not a requirement, but it is sure nice to have.